New York Times columnist and “founding friend” David French once again joins host Curtis Chang to discuss the evolving nature of American governance under the Trump administration. Their conversation delves into the growing concentration of power within the executive branch, particularly fueled by the MAGA movement, and the erosion of the checks and balances that the country’s founders carefully designed to preserve democracy.

French and Chang explore the weakening influence of both the legislative and judicial branches’ power, and look at how both the Republican and Democratic Parties have responded to these shift, raising concerns about the future of justice in America. The Trump administration’s impact on democracy is front and center, with a particular focus on how MAGA ideals are reshaping the political landscape.

The episode also turns to the Christian response to authoritarianism, emphasizing the importance of family structure, strong community, and inspired worship as pillars of resilience. French and Chang argue that these elements are crucial for Christians facing a rising tide of authoritarianism and for those seeking hope in uncertain times.

This thoughtful discussion offers an insightful reflection on the current state of American governance, the importance of checks and balances, and the role of faith and community in the face of political turbulence. With a mix of historical analysis, practical advice, and spiritual encouragement, this episode provides a powerful roadmap for navigating the complexities of modern-day democracy.

This excerpt has been edited for length and clarity.

David French: Here’s the reason why I think this is particularly hard in this moment for many Christians: I think we’re told and understand that this world is not our home. As much as we might love our country, we are not fundamentally defined by our patriotism. We are fundamentally defined by our obedience to Jesus Christ. So the idea of a Christian feeling alienated from his or her country is not a new thing, nor is it always a bad thing. We should have always maintained a bit of separation. My primary identity has never been as an American more than a Christian.

But I do think that when you have moments like this, what happens is lots of people are not only feeling like their country is slipping away, they also feel like their church home and their church community is slipping away. And I can tell you of the two, the loss of that feeling of a church community is harder for me to handle than the sense of a loss of connection with national politics or even national policy. I’m used to losing elections and having policies that I don’t like, and that’s just life in a democracy. But this idea that so many people in the church are going to marry themselves to this viciously authoritarian and cruel man, and then judge your faith and judge your membership in the community by your allegiance to that man? I think that is where a lot of people are feeling it to the marrow of their bones.