In this episode of Good Faith, Curtis Chang and Pete Wehner—columnist for The Atlantic and former White House staffer—delve deep into the concept of political exile and the challenges of navigating political shifts in a time of extreme division. Wehner’s personal journey, which saw him shape policy in the wake of 9/11 before ultimately breaking from the Republican Party over the rise of Donald Trump, offers a poignant framework for discussing identity in divisive times.

As the conversation unfolds, Chang and Wehner explore the profound sense of cultural homelessness felt by many American Christians today. This sense of homelessness is not just a political shift, but a spiritual exile—a feeling of disconnect from both society and the evangelical community that many once called home. In reflecting on his own Christian identity and how it has evolved through the era of tribalism and cognitive dissonance, Wehner illustrates the emotional toll of aligning one’s faith with political movements that seem increasingly disconnected from core Christian values.

The episode also examines the intersection of faith and politics, offering a fresh perspective on redefining Christian engagement in a time of heightened polarization. Rather than leaning into culture war rhetoric, Curtis and Pete advocate for a model of culture care, emphasizing the need for love and solidarity amidst cultural and political fractures. They challenge listeners to seek purpose by engaging in constructive dialogue and staying true to one’s convictions, without being consumed by the divisive forces of our time.

In discussing the Republican Party and Donald Trump, the conversation touches on how the rise of tribalism in politics has pushed many to reconsider their identities and affiliations. For those who feel caught between loyalty to their political heritage and their Christian faith, the episode provides an opportunity to reflect on what it means to be a part of the Christian community in the midst of such turmoil.

Ultimately, Curtis Chang and Pete Wehner offer a vision for finding purpose and renewed meaning in a time that often feels like a political wilderness. They highlight the importance of remaining grounded in Christian identity and seeking a way to engage in the world that is true to one’s values—regardless of political affiliation. Through this exploration of political exile, cultural homelessness, and the redefining of Christian engagement, they inspire listeners to move beyond the divides and find deeper, more authentic ways to live out their faith in a fragmented world.

This excerpt has been edited for length and clarity.

Pete Wehner: How did Christianity go from a small group in first century Palestine, a handful of people, to sweep basically the entire Western world? It wasn’t through the seizure of political power, it was the witness of the church: being advocates for solidarity, caring for the least and the lost.

It was that power of that witness, which is that we’re exiles but we’re going to be exiles who love in the midst of the exile, and are faithful, and are bridge builders. That is ultimately the most powerful witness.

If we as Christians get that inverted, if we think that political power is what we want and what we have to have, it’s just a false promise. There have been times in which Christians have had power, and what they thought would happen hasn’t happened, because life is contingent and the political power is limited in its capacity to change culture, to change hearts and minds.

But I think the more dangerous thing that happens is that, rather than leavening politics, in a lot of cases, politics corrupts and disfigures the Christian faith and without people even knowing it, Christianity becomes secondary.