What’s happening at the border? Part 2
With Michael Debruhl
The wave of immigrants and refugees at the border has filled the news, and will most likely influence the next presidential elections. But what’s really happening there? And how should American Christians make sense of this issue? In the second of two episodes on this topic, Curtis is joined by someone with a unique perspective, Michael Debruhl. Michael is a former agent and executive in the Border Patrol who felt disturbed at the widespread misconceptions on the topic. Upon leaving the agency, he started volunteering at the Sacred Heart Shelter, one of the main church based programs receiving migrants at the border.
Helpful resources on immigration and the border
Accurate information from The National Immigration Forum (a non-partisan effort at sensible and compassionate reform of our national approach to immigration)
What’s happening at the U.S.-Mexico border in 7 charts from The Pew Research Center
What’s behind the influx of migrants crossing the U.S. southern border? from PBS NewsHour
Public database from the US Customs and Border Protection (the main federal agency overseeing the border)
DONATE to the Sacred Heart Shelter (Casa del Sagrado Corazón) – the shelter directed by guest Michael Debruhl
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I appreciate the discussion on immigration, but I think your guest missed the mark on some of his “facts”.
1. “The number of immigrants coming over the border in 2021 is the same as we have seen in 1986 and 2000 so this is not really an unprecedented crisis.” According to the data you link to in the show notes, illegal immigration was significantly reduced after the peaks in 1986 and 2000. This is not happening now. In 2021 the number was about the same as 1986 and 2000, but the number in 2022 was even greater and the number in 2023 was even greater than that. The numbers are not going down year after year. In fact, they are increasing. This is unprecedented and yes, it is a crisis. Your guest on part 1 of this series agrees with this (she says these are “historic” numbers).
2. “Most drugs come through points of entry so an increase in drug trafficking can’t be correlated with the increase in illegal immigration.” Illegal drugs have always been trafficked both through ports of entry and through “mules” over the border. When you flood the border with potential mules and flood ports of entry with drugs, you overwhelm the limited number of border patrol agents that can stop you. You are therefore logically able to get more drugs into the country – there are just not enough people to stop it. That is the correlation. This is also true of human trafficking, which no one seems to mention.
3. “There is no correlation between migrants in a community and the crime rate.” I don’t doubt that people who come here and want to work will be good citizens and I believe that is true for the vast majority of immigrants. However, this statement misses the point that there has been a dramatic increase in criminals and people on the terrorist watch list who are getting into our country. Again, the fact that more of them have been caught also logically means that more of them have not been caught.
4. “Walls don’t really work.” All you need to do is a little research on how other countries have used walls to protect themselves and the effect they have had to see that this is not totally true.
5. “Refugee, foreigner, neighbor, alien in the Bible is the same as an immigrant today.” I understand that we want to use this comparison to show that we need to treat people with dignity and love, but you can’t use it to gloss over the fact that illegal immigrants are breaking the law. We must have a Biblical heart for people who come here illegally but we also have to respect the laws (as bad as they are) of our country. If you use this analogy, this needs to be made clear.
I get that your main concern is that we should treat all people with the love and respect they deserve, but it seems like you diminish or minimize the very real issues that are caused by our current immigration policies. Why not have a thoughtful Christian on your podcast that has a different perspective on immigration?
I agree with the above comments. Curtis did a great job of asking summary follow-up questions (“so let me get this right, you are saying…”) and every time the guest dodged the question or re-framed it but made it sound like he agreed with Curtis’s summary and I don’t think he did. I also question the assertion that the vast majority (97%?) of what we think are illegal immigrants are here “legally” and the big issue is the backlog in granting work permits. That seemed to be his main assertion about what needed to be fixed.
I 100% agree that we, as Christians, have an important – and Biblical – opportunity to treat all with dignity and respect. If someone is hungry, you feed them and ask questions (about their immigration status) later, if at all. But let’s make sure we are being honest about what is happening: yes, there is massive media and political distortion. But the “no big deal – this is all consistent with the past” posture can actually backfire because if the credibility of the speaker is lost then the it’s easy(er) to question the assertion of what to do next.
The lady on the previous episode was terrific and I’m really glad you are engaging on this topic. Would love for you to share your thoughts on this in an upcoming episode, and please do correct me/ us if we have misunderstood something!
Thanks for all you do!