The moral aftershocks of Gaza (with David French)
With David French
The ongoing war in Gaza has sent out reverberations in the political, military, and economic spheres. But what about the moral sphere? Curtis is joined by “founding friend” David French to examine the moral aftershocks of Gaza in two disparate spheres: the moral practice of war and the moral practice of free speech at universities. We examine why Christians should care about both spheres, and also uncover the surprising theological similarities between them.
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“How Gaza is affecting American Jews and Christians” – a Good Faith episode with Rabbi Michael Holzman and David French
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Preface: I love the podcast and listen to it regularly. Both of you (Curtis and David) have many more brain cells than do I. On this topic both of you have made many great points, and have a lot of expertise in this issue of “Just War.” I learned a lot from it. Nevertheless, “I have a few things against you…”
First, I believe you downplay the injustices of Israel on the Palestinians in Gaza. I’m not saying that their sufferings were a justification of their horrific attack on Israel. But what you call “grievances,” (which you pointed out are not a justification for war) is in my opinion a poor representation of the unconscionable treatment of the citizens of Gaza at the hands of Israel for decades.
Second, you gave a clear and very helpful summary of the internationally accepted “legal” justification for going to war and how to proceed during war. But you repeatedly conflated what is known as “legal” with what we Christians identify as “moral.” You even referred to Matthew 5 as the basis of what Jesus taught about violent response and implied that Just War Theory is in keeping with his teaching. I’m not saying the “theory” is full of inconsistencies with itself, but that from a Christian perspective, it can’t be seen as the perfectly moral ideal. For that, we have to turn to Jesus. The “theory” is a theory and though it may be the best that humans can devise (though I don’t think so), it can’t be thought of as THE way of or to the Kingdom.
It seems to me that we can’t call the actions of the IDF since Oct 7 “moral.” It may be “legal” but not all things legal are moral. I agree that the IDF has a moral responsibility to protect its citizens, but we who are followers of Jesus and his teaching, have a different/better source for what is moral. And from that source we learn that the IDF has a moral responsibility to do all they can to keep from maiming and killing Palestinian non-combatants. What you said about how Just War looks at how Hamas hides behind civilians was helpful, but in my opinion, it still doesn’t rise to being moral to kill 20 times more than were killed by Hamas. Maybe that’s the internationally accepted standard for a legal effort, it doesn’t mean it’s what Jesus would accept as moral.
I’m not saying that it’s simple or that I have an iron clad recommendation for the IDF in this case. But as I see it, they may not be guilty of war crimes, but are violating human decency by killing over 25,000 image-bearing Palestinians and wounding over 62,000. This compared to over 1200 Jews that were murdered plus hostages.
I truly believe that if this war weren’t between our sworn enemies (Jihadists) and our spiritual ancestors (Jews) many of us would come to a different conclusion about what is moral and what isn’t.
Thank you for your thoughts on this and for listening to mine. I admire you both greatly.
I wish a discussion on the morality of war would include a little more compassion for the innocent people slain and those whose lives are in peril of death from displacement, disease, starvation. While I appreciate the attempt to place the conflict in Gaza in the context of just war theory, I’m not sure the treatment of that theory was as moral. Just war theory, properly presented is focused on the lives of the innocent; it is not an encouragement for listeners to simply trust Israel and give it the benefit of the doubt.
Is this a war of ‘last resort’? Is the response mostly ‘defensive’? Have all options of resolving the conflict through non-violent means been exhausted? As a redress of injury, is the response truly proportional? It is easy to suspend disbelief when the guest is an attorney who has worked to defend Israel in the past, as Mr. French stated. It is not so easy when one does not have that luxury of time and distance.
Just war theory is also based upon the idea of two sovereign states. In this case, Israel is a state and Palestinian’s are simply people. They are a people who depend upon Israel for their electricity, their water, their movement as well goods and medicines into and out of the territory. Israel has determined much of the health, well-being, and opportunity of Gazans for years. To ignore this fact, that is humiliating for Palestinians, and to ignore that the West Bank is also locked down with an increase from normal levels of child detentions and killings, is problematic and misleading to Good Faith listeners. I do respect you both and usually enjoy the show.