In this timely episode of the Good Faith podcast, DT Slouffman is joined by Michael Luo, executive editor at The New Yorker and author of Strangers in the Land. Their conversation follows a deeply personal and historical perspective on the Asian American experience in light of recent changes to the United States immigration policies and treatment of migrants.

From the shadows of the Chinese Exclusion Act to the alarming rise in anti-Asian hate during the COVID-19 pandemic, Luo traces how Asian Americans have often been seen as “perpetual foreigners,” regardless of how many generations they’ve lived in the U.S. Drawing from both national history and his own viral moment that sparked widespread dialogue, Luo challenges listeners to reconsider what it means to be American.

Together, DT and Michael explore how race, immigration, and belonging have shaped not just the Asian American narrative, but the broader American identity. Their conversation offers both sobering insights and hopeful vision, and is an invitation to imagine a future that makes room for all.

This excerpt has been edited for length and clarity.

Michael Luo: We gravitate towards people we are like – and this relates to ethnicity, race, class, education, and producing churches that reflect the diversity of God’s creation. It’s hard because we’re human beings. One thing that makes this hard is just human nature. Part of the work is knowing history and understanding the contingent way that history works, and also incorporating narratives that have not traditionally been included into that history. Telling the story that there are Chinese in this country that date back five generations.

Chinese Exclusion and these other laws prevented and made it very difficult for Chinese to enter the country. This community is like a tree root that was blocked by a boulder and prevented from growing. Imagine where we would be as a country today if the Chinese community had been allowed to continue to grow, in the way that the Irish grew around the same time – they became American citizens and developed a political voice. Imagine if that had happened. We would probably be in a very different place as a country. I think that this question of belonging that I wrestled with, and that I’m worried my kids will wrestle with would be very different today.