In this Good Faith podcast episode, Curtis Chang and Andy Crouch unpack the complex relationship we have with smartphones and the digital world today. Their conversation explores how the initial excitement surrounding technological innovation has shifted into a reality filled with challenges—particularly when it comes to the impact of smartphones on adolescent mental health.

The discussion touches on the rise of digital minimalism and the growing interest in dopamine detoxes as potential remedies for those trying to break free from the endless scroll. Chang and Crouch highlight the importance of balancing technology and real-world interactions for kids, suggesting that families can benefit from practices like digital fasting and intentional tech use, reclaiming their time and mental space while ensuring that technology enhances rather than hinders their lives.

They delve into insights from figures like Jonathan Haidt and Jean Twenge, who shed light on how social media addiction and internet addiction have contributed to what’s been coined “the anxious generation.” With platforms like TikTok and Instagram pulling in millions of young users, leading to an addictive cycle of dopamine hits, the podcast examines how these digital experiences can detract from more meaningful, face-to-face interactions.

This episode offers a thought-provoking look at how we can navigate today’s screen-saturated world with intentionality, encouraging families to engage in digital fasting and making space for real-world connections. It’s a timely exploration for anyone looking to build healthier tech habits in a world that’s increasingly dependent on smartphones.

This excerpt has been edited for length and clarity.

Andy Crouch: I think we deliberately took this path toward being less engaged with the world because we had a dream that had been handed to us for hundreds of years of what it would be like to have real power, and the name of the dream is magic. And the dream of magic, which has been part of the story of Western science all along, was to have this kind of instant, effortless and impersonal power – power that didn’t require you to have a relationship with any other people, power that didn’t require you to have a relationship with domesticated animals who would help you do the work, power that would just be at your command whenever you want it. You lift a finger, or you wave a wand, or say a spell, and something happens.

That dream has been part of the human story for a long time. It’s just that science figured out enough of how the world works in some fundamental ways that we actually sort of get to have that experience now.

We’re all magicians now, but there’s always been a warning about magic in the biblical tradition. There are some religions that are pretty happy with magic. Roman religion was very much suffused with magic, but Christianity and Judaism before it and the Bible always really strongly say “do not try to have this kind of power.” And why is that? Well, I think we’re starting to see that magic’s not so great. That’s my deeper theory.

We are finding out this actually strangely leaves you unshaped and unformed as a human being, and very susceptible to the worst of what others can do, but maybe even the worst of a kind of spiritual world that impinges on your world and the worst that it can do.